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RE: Re: Honking Cabbies

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Rod

Winnable? You really think this would make it on the to list of things for NYC to achieve at this ti
Winnable? You really think this would make it on the to list of things for NYC to achieve at this time?  Its great to come u with nice ideas, but more productive to develop well thought out strategies  that reflect the realities of competing priorities for $ and attention of government officials and politicians.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:15 AM
To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@...>
Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re: Honking Cabbies


Of course there are more important issues than honking -- securing
Pakistan's nuclear weaponry, for example.

Still, if someone wants to put time and energy and resources into an
anti-honking campaign, that'd be fantastic and, I bet, winnable.




On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Millott, Rod (US - New York) wrote:

> I think there are more imortant issues than honking.  Overall
> enforcement of laws, including pedestrians walking against red
> lights, cyclists running red lights AS WELL AS targeting vehicle
> infringements is what is needed.  Moreover, a comprehensive public
> awareness campaign that encourages all users of roads to understand
> their obligations and to be respectful of others users to he'll
> ensure the safety of all.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:44 AM
> To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@...
> >
> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
> Honking Cabbies
>
>
> The market-based anti-honking solutions come up a lot but they are
> absolute non-starters. Horns are there for emergencies. You can't
> charge people money to use a safety device that we really do, in fact,
> want them to use in emergency situations. More important: The taxi
> owners are never going to allow you install devices in their cars that
> take money from them.
>
> If someone really wanted to put together a real advocacy campaign
> around car horns, I think the objectives would be pretty
> straightforward:
>
> - Get the NYPD and/or DOT and DEP to massively increase anti-honking
> enforcement on an ongoing basis. Perhaps some technology could be
> deployed to enable automated enforcement, like red light cams do with
> red light runners.
>
> - As part of that campaign, aggressively target dollar vans and livery
> cabs that use their horns to attract and notify passengers of their
> availability. Make sure all those companies know that the honking is
> no longer going to be tolerated and they will be heavily fined.
>
> - Get the TLC to mandate a new, softer, gentler, pedestrian-friendly
> horn in all NYC cabs and liveries.
>
> - Get the mayor and/or the police commissioner to talk about the issue
> and take it on. raise consciousness.
>
> If someone really wanted to work on this, I think all of the above
> objectives are potentially achievable.
>
> --A
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Greg Zwahlen wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Great idea. I think the honking issue is one of the more
>> under-addressed quality of life issues out there today. Three years
>> ago the Times ran a "Suggestions for Mayor Bloomberg" and one reader
>> submitted what I think is a great idea regarding cab honking:
>>
>> Suggestion: Counters should be installed in taxicab horns. Each
>> month,
>> cabdrivers would pay for the number of times they honked (they might
>> be given a generous allowance of free honks for safety). The cost per
>> honk could be relatively low, maybe 50 cents. The knowledge that
>> disturbing the peace isn't entirely free might quiet the pointless
>> use
>> of car horns, or at least raise some revenue. If the plan is a
>> success, it might be expanded to other vehicles in the city.
>> — Thomas Talbot, Upper West Side
>>
>> Matthew W. Daus, chairman of the Taxi and Limousine Commission,
>> responded: "Hornhonking for any reason other than to warn of danger
>> is
>> simply unacceptable, which is why it is singled out for mention in
>> the
>> 'Passenger Bill of Rights.' We definitely appreciate the highly
>> creative approaches to this issue, but continue to believe that the
>> best way to hold drivers appropriately accountable is to report
>> incidents by calling 311."
>>
>> (you can view it here:
>> http://travel.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/nyregion/thecity/08featheds.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FV%2FVandam%2C%20Jeff
>> )
>>
>> Best,
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Ethan Kent <ekent@...> wrote:
>>> This may be a project to combine the passions of the two Aarons that
>>> love to make noise about excessive noise.
>>>
>>> Aaron Friedman (CC'd )lead a successful campaign to reduce the use
>>> of
>>> Car Alarms.  http://www.silentmajorityny.org/
>>>
>>> He is busy through this month leading Make Music NY.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ethan Kent
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> Project for Public Spaces
>>> 700 Broadway New York, NY 10003
>>> T (212) 620-5660 x 318 F (212) 620-3821
>>> http://www.pps.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aaron Naparstek [mailto:aaron@...]
>>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:38 PM
>>> To: nycsr-discussion@...
>>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
>>> Honking
>>> Cabbies
>>>
>>> i didn't have a decibel meter on me but it sure sounded that way to
>>> me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't had a chance to hear a London cab horn, are they
>>>> significantly lower
>>>> in decibels than their American cousin?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2009-05-29 12:37, Aaron Naparstek wrote:
>>>>> it's a great idea. the horns in london taxis would do just fine
>>>>> and
>>>>> it
>>>>> wouldn't take all that much work to modify these horns.
>>>>>
>>>>> i'd love to see someone do a sustained and organized advocacy
>>>>> effort
>>>>> at the TLC and in City Council on this issue. they will be highly
>>>>> resistant but this is very winnable. taxis are relatively easy to
>>>>> regulate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone. I've been pondering these days what we would need
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> in order to suppress the over use of car horns by cab drivers.
>>>>>> As we
>>>>>> all know the threat of the $350 fine for honking has not been a
>>>>>> deterrent and in my opinion almost impossible to enforce, so I
>>>>>> propose looking into a car horn for our yellow cabs that isn't as
>>>>>> loud as the current ones. What do my fellow New Yorkers think of
>>>>>> this idea? What are your ideas about this issue and how should
>>>>>> it be
>>>>>> addressed? Does anyone know of a horn or heard of a car horn that
>>>>>> isn't as loud. Does anyone know of any other cities that have
>>>>>> successfully addressed this issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Archive:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>> ive/2009/05/1243614432578
>>>> To
>>>>>> unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>>>> nycsr-discussion@...
>>>> .  Please contact
>>>>>> nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>>> for questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Archive:
>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>> ive/2009/05/1243615522016
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>> nycsr-discussion@...
>>>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>>> for questions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Archive:
>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>> ive/2009/05/1243618673730
>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>> nycsr-discussion@....  Please contact
>>> nycsr-discussion-manager@... for questions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/05/1243634755263
>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>> for questions.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243867288321
>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>> for questions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
> for questions.
>
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
> information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is
> protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should
> delete this message.
>
> Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the
> taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. [v.E.1]
>
>
>
> --
> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243879256708
> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
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Aaron Naparstek

absolutely. it is small and focused enough to be a winnable campaign. plus, it fits in with other
absolutely. it is small and focused enough to be a winnable campaign.  
plus, it fits in with other efforts that are already underway in the  
bloomberg administration including planyc, green taxis and the noise  
code revisions. if paul chenard wanted to put concerted effort into an  
anti-honking campaign, i'm sure he could make something happen. it'd  
be similar to the anti-car alarm campaign that aaron friedman  
spearheaded a couple of years ago.

moreover, the existence of an anti-honking campaign wouldn't prevent  
you or anyone else from working on more comprehensive livable streets  
strategies, if that's what you preferred to work on. unless you are  
trying to convince paul to put his energy into a campaign that you are  
organizing, i can't imagine why you'd want to discourage him or anyone  
else from taking this on.



On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Millott, Rod (US - New York) wrote:
> Winnable? You really think this would make it on the to list of  
> things for NYC to achieve at this time?  Its great to come u with  
> nice ideas, but more productive to develop well thought out  
> strategies  that reflect the realities of competing priorities for $  
> and attention of government officials and politicians.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:15 AM
> To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@... 
> >
> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:  
> Honking Cabbies
>
>
> Of course there are more important issues than honking -- securing
> Pakistan's nuclear weaponry, for example.
>
> Still, if someone wants to put time and energy and resources into an
> anti-honking campaign, that'd be fantastic and, I bet, winnable.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Millott, Rod (US - New York) wrote:
>
>> I think there are more imortant issues than honking.  Overall
>> enforcement of laws, including pedestrians walking against red
>> lights, cyclists running red lights AS WELL AS targeting vehicle
>> infringements is what is needed.  Moreover, a comprehensive public
>> awareness campaign that encourages all users of roads to understand
>> their obligations and to be respectful of others users to he'll
>> ensure the safety of all.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:44 AM
>> To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@...
>>>
>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
>> Honking Cabbies
>>
>>
>> The market-based anti-honking solutions come up a lot but they are
>> absolute non-starters. Horns are there for emergencies. You can't
>> charge people money to use a safety device that we really do, in  
>> fact,
>> want them to use in emergency situations. More important: The taxi
>> owners are never going to allow you install devices in their cars  
>> that
>> take money from them.
>>
>> If someone really wanted to put together a real advocacy campaign
>> around car horns, I think the objectives would be pretty
>> straightforward:
>>
>> - Get the NYPD and/or DOT and DEP to massively increase anti-honking
>> enforcement on an ongoing basis. Perhaps some technology could be
>> deployed to enable automated enforcement, like red light cams do with
>> red light runners.
>>
>> - As part of that campaign, aggressively target dollar vans and  
>> livery
>> cabs that use their horns to attract and notify passengers of their
>> availability. Make sure all those companies know that the honking is
>> no longer going to be tolerated and they will be heavily fined.
>>
>> - Get the TLC to mandate a new, softer, gentler, pedestrian-friendly
>> horn in all NYC cabs and liveries.
>>
>> - Get the mayor and/or the police commissioner to talk about the  
>> issue
>> and take it on. raise consciousness.
>>
>> If someone really wanted to work on this, I think all of the above
>> objectives are potentially achievable.
>>
>> --A
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Greg Zwahlen wrote:
>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> Great idea. I think the honking issue is one of the more
>>> under-addressed quality of life issues out there today. Three years
>>> ago the Times ran a "Suggestions for Mayor Bloomberg" and one reader
>>> submitted what I think is a great idea regarding cab honking:
>>>
>>> Suggestion: Counters should be installed in taxicab horns. Each
>>> month,
>>> cabdrivers would pay for the number of times they honked (they might
>>> be given a generous allowance of free honks for safety). The cost  
>>> per
>>> honk could be relatively low, maybe 50 cents. The knowledge that
>>> disturbing the peace isn't entirely free might quiet the pointless
>>> use
>>> of car horns, or at least raise some revenue. If the plan is a
>>> success, it might be expanded to other vehicles in the city.
>>> — Thomas Talbot, Upper West Side
>>>
>>> Matthew W. Daus, chairman of the Taxi and Limousine Commission,
>>> responded: "Hornhonking for any reason other than to warn of danger
>>> is
>>> simply unacceptable, which is why it is singled out for mention in
>>> the
>>> 'Passenger Bill of Rights.' We definitely appreciate the highly
>>> creative approaches to this issue, but continue to believe that the
>>> best way to hold drivers appropriately accountable is to report
>>> incidents by calling 311."
>>>
>>> (you can view it here:
>>> http://travel.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/nyregion/thecity/08featheds.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FV%2FVandam%2C%20Jeff
>>> )
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Ethan Kent <ekent@...> wrote:
>>>> This may be a project to combine the passions of the two Aarons  
>>>> that
>>>> love to make noise about excessive noise.
>>>>
>>>> Aaron Friedman (CC'd )lead a successful campaign to reduce the use
>>>> of
>>>> Car Alarms.  http://www.silentmajorityny.org/
>>>>
>>>> He is busy through this month leading Make Music NY.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ethan Kent
>>>> Vice President
>>>>
>>>> Project for Public Spaces
>>>> 700 Broadway New York, NY 10003
>>>> T (212) 620-5660 x 318 F (212) 620-3821
>>>> http://www.pps.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Aaron Naparstek [mailto:aaron@...]
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:38 PM
>>>> To: nycsr-discussion@...
>>>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
>>>> Honking
>>>> Cabbies
>>>>
>>>> i didn't have a decibel meter on me but it sure sounded that way to
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had a chance to hear a London cab horn, are they
>>>>> significantly lower
>>>>> in decibels than their American cousin?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-05-29 12:37, Aaron Naparstek wrote:
>>>>>> it's a great idea. the horns in london taxis would do just fine
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> wouldn't take all that much work to modify these horns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i'd love to see someone do a sustained and organized advocacy
>>>>>> effort
>>>>>> at the TLC and in City Council on this issue. they will be highly
>>>>>> resistant but this is very winnable. taxis are relatively easy to
>>>>>> regulate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone. I've been pondering these days what we would need
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>> in order to suppress the over use of car horns by cab drivers.
>>>>>>> As we
>>>>>>> all know the threat of the $350 fine for honking has not been a
>>>>>>> deterrent and in my opinion almost impossible to enforce, so I
>>>>>>> propose looking into a car horn for our yellow cabs that isn't  
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> loud as the current ones. What do my fellow New Yorkers think of
>>>>>>> this idea? What are your ideas about this issue and how should
>>>>>>> it be
>>>>>>> addressed? Does anyone know of a horn or heard of a car horn  
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> isn't as loud. Does anyone know of any other cities that have
>>>>>>> successfully addressed this issue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Archive:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>>> ive/2009/05/1243614432578
>>>>> To
>>>>>>> unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>>>>> nycsr-discussion@...
>>>>> .  Please contact
>>>>>>> nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>>>> for questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Archive:
>>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>>> ive/2009/05/1243615522016
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>> nycsr-discussion@...
>>>>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion- 
>>>>> manager@...
>>>>> for questions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Archive:
>>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>>> ive/2009/05/1243618673730
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
>>>> nycsr-discussion@....  Please contact
>>>> nycsr-discussion-manager@... for questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/05/1243634755263
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>>>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>>> for questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243867288321
>>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>>> for questions.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243878249485
>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>> for questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>> information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is
>> protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should
>> delete this message.
>>
>> Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the
>> taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. [v.E.1]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243879256708
>> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@...
>> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...
>> for questions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Archive: http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/archive/2009/06/1243880027480
> To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to nycsr-discussion@... 
> .  Please contact nycsr-discussion-manager@...  
> for questions.
>
>
>
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Paul Chenard

Hello Everyone, I'm glad that I could help start a conversation on something that could really h
Hello Everyone,

	I'm glad that I could help start a conversation on something that  
could really help improve the quality of lives for everyone in NYC and  
those that visiting. I personally think going with a smaller  
pedestrian friendly horn would be an easier sell than a market  
solution, even though I think the market solution is a good idea at  
making those that honk internalized the social cost. Having spoken  
with some cab drivers while taking a cab, they feel they are being  
pressed to give up a lot given they have this fee that must be charged  
to passengers and the closing off some streets to auto traffic. A  
smaller horn would be a good compromise in my opinion to out right  
penalizing the cab drive who is trying to make a living.

-Paul



On Jun 1, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Aaron Naparstek wrote:
>
> absolutely. it is small and focused enough to be a winnable  
> campaign. plus, it fits in with other efforts that are already  
> underway in the bloomberg administration including planyc, green  
> taxis and the noise code revisions. if paul chenard wanted to put  
> concerted effort into an anti-honking campaign, i'm sure he could  
> make something happen. it'd be similar to the anti-car alarm  
> campaign that aaron friedman spearheaded a couple of years ago.
>
> moreover, the existence of an anti-honking campaign wouldn't prevent  
> you or anyone else from working on more comprehensive livable  
> streets strategies, if that's what you preferred to work on. unless  
> you are trying to convince paul to put his energy into a campaign  
> that you are organizing, i can't imagine why you'd want to  
> discourage him or anyone else from taking this on.
>
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Millott, Rod (US - New York) wrote:
>
>> Winnable? You really think this would make it on the to list of  
>> things for NYC to achieve at this time?  Its great to come u with  
>> nice ideas, but more productive to develop well thought out  
>> strategies  that reflect the realities of competing priorities for  
>> $ and attention of government officials and politicians.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:15 AM
>> To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@... 
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:  
>> Honking Cabbies
>>
>>
>> Of course there are more important issues than honking -- securing
>> Pakistan's nuclear weaponry, for example.
>>
>> Still, if someone wants to put time and energy and resources into an
>> anti-honking campaign, that'd be fantastic and, I bet, winnable.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Millott, Rod (US - New York) wrote:
>>
>>> I think there are more imortant issues than honking.  Overall
>>> enforcement of laws, including pedestrians walking against red
>>> lights, cyclists running red lights AS WELL AS targeting vehicle
>>> infringements is what is needed.  Moreover, a comprehensive public
>>> awareness campaign that encourages all users of roads to understand
>>> their obligations and to be respectful of others users to he'll
>>> ensure the safety of all.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aaron Naparstek <aaron@...>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:44 AM
>>> To: nycsr-discussion@... <nycsr-discussion@...
>>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
>>> Honking Cabbies
>>>
>>>
>>> The market-based anti-honking solutions come up a lot but they are
>>> absolute non-starters. Horns are there for emergencies. You can't
>>> charge people money to use a safety device that we really do, in  
>>> fact,
>>> want them to use in emergency situations. More important: The taxi
>>> owners are never going to allow you install devices in their cars  
>>> that
>>> take money from them.
>>>
>>> If someone really wanted to put together a real advocacy campaign
>>> around car horns, I think the objectives would be pretty
>>> straightforward:
>>>
>>> - Get the NYPD and/or DOT and DEP to massively increase anti-honking
>>> enforcement on an ongoing basis. Perhaps some technology could be
>>> deployed to enable automated enforcement, like red light cams do  
>>> with
>>> red light runners.
>>>
>>> - As part of that campaign, aggressively target dollar vans and  
>>> livery
>>> cabs that use their horns to attract and notify passengers of their
>>> availability. Make sure all those companies know that the honking is
>>> no longer going to be tolerated and they will be heavily fined.
>>>
>>> - Get the TLC to mandate a new, softer, gentler, pedestrian-friendly
>>> horn in all NYC cabs and liveries.
>>>
>>> - Get the mayor and/or the police commissioner to talk about the  
>>> issue
>>> and take it on. raise consciousness.
>>>
>>> If someone really wanted to work on this, I think all of the above
>>> objectives are potentially achievable.
>>>
>>> --A
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Greg Zwahlen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> Great idea. I think the honking issue is one of the more
>>>> under-addressed quality of life issues out there today. Three years
>>>> ago the Times ran a "Suggestions for Mayor Bloomberg" and one  
>>>> reader
>>>> submitted what I think is a great idea regarding cab honking:
>>>>
>>>> Suggestion: Counters should be installed in taxicab horns. Each
>>>> month,
>>>> cabdrivers would pay for the number of times they honked (they  
>>>> might
>>>> be given a generous allowance of free honks for safety). The cost  
>>>> per
>>>> honk could be relatively low, maybe 50 cents. The knowledge that
>>>> disturbing the peace isn't entirely free might quiet the pointless
>>>> use
>>>> of car horns, or at least raise some revenue. If the plan is a
>>>> success, it might be expanded to other vehicles in the city.
>>>> — Thomas Talbot, Upper West Side
>>>>
>>>> Matthew W. Daus, chairman of the Taxi and Limousine Commission,
>>>> responded: "Hornhonking for any reason other than to warn of danger
>>>> is
>>>> simply unacceptable, which is why it is singled out for mention in
>>>> the
>>>> 'Passenger Bill of Rights.' We definitely appreciate the highly
>>>> creative approaches to this issue, but continue to believe that the
>>>> best way to hold drivers appropriately accountable is to report
>>>> incidents by calling 311."
>>>>
>>>> (you can view it here:
>>>> http://travel.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/nyregion/thecity/08featheds.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FV%2FVandam%2C%20Jeff
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Ethan Kent <ekent@...> wrote:
>>>>> This may be a project to combine the passions of the two Aarons  
>>>>> that
>>>>> love to make noise about excessive noise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aaron Friedman (CC'd )lead a successful campaign to reduce the use
>>>>> of
>>>>> Car Alarms.  http://www.silentmajorityny.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> He is busy through this month leading Make Music NY.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ethan Kent
>>>>> Vice President
>>>>>
>>>>> Project for Public Spaces
>>>>> 700 Broadway New York, NY 10003
>>>>> T (212) 620-5660 x 318 F (212) 620-3821
>>>>> http://www.pps.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Aaron Naparstek [mailto:aaron@...]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:38 PM
>>>>> To: nycsr-discussion@...
>>>>> Subject: Re: [New York City Streets Renaissance discussion] Re:
>>>>> Honking
>>>>> Cabbies
>>>>>
>>>>> i didn't have a decibel meter on me but it sure sounded that way  
>>>>> to
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had a chance to hear a London cab horn, are they
>>>>>> significantly lower
>>>>>> in decibels than their American cousin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2009-05-29 12:37, Aaron Naparstek wrote:
>>>>>>> it's a great idea. the horns in london taxis would do just fine
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> wouldn't take all that much work to modify these horns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'd love to see someone do a sustained and organized advocacy
>>>>>>> effort
>>>>>>> at the TLC and in City Council on this issue. they will be  
>>>>>>> highly
>>>>>>> resistant but this is very winnable. taxis are relatively easy  
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> regulate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Paul Chenard wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi everyone. I've been pondering these days what we would need
>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>> in order to suppress the over use of car horns by cab drivers.
>>>>>>>> As we
>>>>>>>> all know the threat of the $350 fine for honking has not been a
>>>>>>>> deterrent and in my opinion almost impossible to enforce, so I
>>>>>>>> propose looking into a car horn for our yellow cabs that  
>>>>>>>> isn't as
>>>>>>>> loud as the current ones. What do my fellow New Yorkers think  
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> this idea? What are your ideas about this issue and how should
>>>>>>>> it be
>>>>>>>> addressed? Does anyone know of a horn or heard of a car horn  
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> isn't as loud. Does anyone know of any other cities that have
>>>>>>>> successfully addressed this issue?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Archive:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.livablestreets.com/projects/nycsr/lists/nycsr-discussion/arch
>>>>> ive/2009/05/1243614432578
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>>>>>>>> unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to
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