> From: lisa.kereszi@...
> Date: April 14, 2009 4:46:19 PM EDT
> To: kirsten.bechtel@...
> Subject: Fwd: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
>    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
>    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> Subject: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
>      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
>
> Lisa,
> Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments and
> insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is certainly room  
> for
> several different intelligent opinions. I appreciate your taking the
> time to write to us.
> Take care,
> Jon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM
> To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan Matthews
> Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
>
> Dear Mr. Schneider and Mr. Matthews,
> Hello, I am a private citizen who lives in New Haven. I was extremely
> disappointed and surprised when I heard that HB 5522, the red light
> camera
> bill, was shot down last month. I was told that the ACLU's involvement
> may
> have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely  
> understand
> your
> position on the matter, and your position in general. I am not an  
> enemy
> of
> the ACLU, and I support what you do, though I never crossed into
> becoming a
> "card-carrying member," though I considered it. I am telling you  
> this so
> that you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
>
> However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> failed. I
> live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven area. If you lived
> here,
> not that you don't, you would understand what a decent law-abiding
> driver
> here goes through every day. If you go the speed limit here, you  
> will be
> tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several times a
> week,
> if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow light turning to
> red,
> same thing. Here, a red light is a "New Haven Green." Get it? Drivers
> here
> are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high percentage, it
> seems, of drivers who think that they own the road. It's a very  
> serious
> problem for our quality of life, not to mention the safety of drivers,
> cyclists and pedestrians. If you went through what we went through  
> on a
> daily basis, you might not oppose such a bill.
>
> Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due  
> process.
> That
> is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets  
> cut. On
> top
> it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving little financial
> incentive
> for the NHPD to ticket more. I moved here from NYC, so I am not a
> sheltered
> driver. In NY, they have red light cameras. Guess what? People don't
> really
> run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50% more
> cameras
> to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
>
> I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think twice,  
> and
> weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and red-light runners against  
> the
> civil liberties of everyone else who is driving responsibly and within
> the
> law - to have decent quality of life, to have life in general,  
> right? I
> should have a right to leave my house and be more certain that I won't
> be
> broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light. It
> would
> also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person leaves
> the
> scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the time here in New
> Haven,
> including yesterday.
>
> My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to security
> cameras
> in public spaces in this city. Again, if you lived here with the fears
> of
> street crime, you might not be so bothered by such cameras mounted on
> poles.
> Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters. However,  
> there
> needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> happening.
> When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think my
> privacy
> is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a public place, and what I
> do
> there is a public matter. Ditto with when I get in my car and approach
> an
> intersection with a light turning red.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take this
> citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the other
> things
> that you do.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lisa Kereszi
> -----
>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Subject: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments and
> >  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is certainly room
> >  > for
> >  > several different intelligent opinions. I appreciate your taking the
> >  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM
> >  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan Matthews
> >  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >
> >  > Dear Mr. Schneider and Mr. Matthews,
> >  > Hello, I am a private citizen who lives in New Haven. I was extremely
> >  > disappointed and surprised when I heard that HB 5522, the red light
> >  > camera
> >  > bill, was shot down last month. I was told that the ACLU's involvement
> >  > may
> >  > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely
> >  > understand
> >  > your
> >  > position on the matter, and your position in general. I am not an
> >  > enemy
> >  > of
> >  > the ACLU, and I support what you do, though I never crossed into
> >  > becoming a
> >  > "card-carrying member," though I considered it. I am telling you
> >  > this so
> >  > that you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> >  > failed. I
> >  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven area. If you lived
> >  > here,
> >  > not that you don't, you would understand what a decent law-abiding
> >  > driver
> >  > here goes through every day. If you go the speed limit here, you
> >  > will be
> >  > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several times a
> >  > week,
> >  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow light turning to
> >  > red,
> >  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New Haven Green." Get it? Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high percentage, it
> >  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the road. It's a very
> >  > serious
> >  > problem for our quality of life, not to mention the safety of drivers,
> >  > cyclists and pedestrians. If you went through what we went through
> >  > on a
> >  > daily basis, you might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due
> >  > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> >  > cut. On
> >  > top
> >  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving little financial
> >  > incentive
> >  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I moved here from NYC, so I am not a
> >  > sheltered
> >  > driver. In NY, they have red light cameras. Guess what? People don't
> >  > really
> >  > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50% more
> >  > cameras
> >  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think twice,
> >  > and
> >  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and red-light runners against
> >  > the
> >  > civil liberties of everyone else who is driving responsibly and within
> >  > the
> >  > law - to have decent quality of life, to have life in general,
> >  > right? I
> >  > should have a right to leave my house and be more certain that I won't
> >  > be
> >  > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light. It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person leaves
> >  > the
> >  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the time here in New
> >  > Haven,
> >  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to security
> >  > cameras
> >  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you lived here with the fears
> >  > of
> >  > street crime, you might not be so bothered by such cameras mounted on
> >  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters. However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> >  > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think my
> >  > privacy
> >  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a public place, and what I
> >  > do
> >  > there is a public matter. Ditto with when I get in my car and approach
> >  > an
> >  > intersection with a light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take this
> >  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the other
> >  > things
> >  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

From: eccleg@... [mailto:eccleg@...] On Behalf Of Mark Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Erica Mintzer; jmatthews@...; aschneider@...
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...; eccleg@...
Subject: [eccleg] Re: [Traffic-safety] Fwd: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote


Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:

I also support the ACLU, but agree with Erica's position on this
issue.  Automated red light enforcement cameras are used in over 400
communities nationwide as well as countless other cities in the world.
 In many of them, deaths caused by red light camera running, which
annually number in the thousands, have seen dramatic declines.  In
addition, increased safety and security leads to far more walkable and
healthier communities.

The ACLU does not typically advocate against positions that would
positively impact public health to such a large and proven degree.
Just last week in New Haven, six more individuals were sent to the
hospital with serious injuries, one with multiple skull fractures,
after a driver ran a red light.  The cumulative financial burden of
traffic-related injuries amounts to hundreds of dollars per person per
year.

Erica refers to many New Haven residents who support red light
cameras.  As evidenced by the cameras' widespread and growing use in
other communities, such support is not limited to New Haven.  The
Steering Committee of the CT Livable Streets Campaign and other groups
have looked into the issue in depth and evaluated potential concerns.
A revised bill, SB149, incorporates many of those concerns.  This
legislation still has the potential of passing the General Assembly
this year and we hope that you will join us in supporting it.

Again, I would just like to reiterate that the CT Livable Streets
Steering Committee supports this measure:

Tokunbo Aanifalaje, Board Member, West River Neighborhood Services Corporation
Mark Abraham, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition;
Secretary, Dixwell Community Management Team
Kirsten Bechtel MD, Section of Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Injury
Free Coalition for Kids, Yale-New Haven Hospital
Justin Elicker, Co-Leader, Friends of East Rock Park
Beth Emery, Member, Transportation Alternatives Middletown
Tom Harned, Board Member, Elm City Cycling
Doug Hausladen, Vice Chairman, Downtown-Wooster Square Community Management Team
Chris Heitmann, Executive Director, Westville Village Renaissance Alliance
Ryan Lynch, Senior Planner, Tri-State Transportation Campaign
Erica Mintzer, Co-Coordinator, Yale Medical Campus Traffic Safety Group
Juli Stupakevich, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition
Erin Sturgis-Pascale, Ward 14 Alderwoman, City of New Haven
Brian Tang, Student, Yale University

Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or would like to
discuss the issue in more detail.

Best regards,

Mark Abraham
203 500 7059



On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Subject: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments and
> >  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is certainly room
> >  > for
> >  > several different intelligent opinions. I appreciate your taking the
> >  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM
> >  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan Matthews
> >  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >
> >  > Dear Mr. Schneider and Mr. Matthews,
> >  > Hello, I am a private citizen who lives in New Haven. I was extremely
> >  > disappointed and surprised when I heard that HB 5522, the red light
> >  > camera
> >  > bill, was shot down last month. I was told that the ACLU's involvement
> >  > may
> >  > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely
> >  > understand
> >  > your
> >  > position on the matter, and your position in general. I am not an
> >  > enemy
> >  > of
> >  > the ACLU, and I support what you do, though I never crossed into
> >  > becoming a
> >  > "card-carrying member," though I considered it. I am telling you
> >  > this so
> >  > that you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> >  > failed. I
> >  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven area. If you lived
> >  > here,
> >  > not that you don't, you would understand what a decent law-abiding
> >  > driver
> >  > here goes through every day. If you go the speed limit here, you
> >  > will be
> >  > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several times a
> >  > week,
> >  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow light turning to
> >  > red,
> >  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New Haven Green." Get it? Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high percentage, it
> >  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the road. It's a very
> >  > serious
> >  > problem for our quality of life, not to mention the safety of drivers,
> >  > cyclists and pedestrians. If you went through what we went through
> >  > on a
> >  > daily basis, you might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due
> >  > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> >  > cut. On
> >  > top
> >  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving little financial
> >  > incentive
> >  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I moved here from NYC, so I am not a
> >  > sheltered
> >  > driver. In NY, they have red light cameras. Guess what? People don't
> >  > really
> >  > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50% more
> >  > cameras
> >  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think twice,
> >  > and
> >  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and red-light runners against
> >  > the
> >  > civil liberties of everyone else who is driving responsibly and within
> >  > the
> >  > law - to have decent quality of life, to have life in general,
> >  > right? I
> >  > should have a right to leave my house and be more certain that I won't
> >  > be
> >  > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light. It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person leaves
> >  > the
> >  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the time here in New
> >  > Haven,
> >  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to security
> >  > cameras
> >  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you lived here with the fears
> >  > of
> >  > street crime, you might not be so bothered by such cameras mounted on
> >  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters. However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> >  > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think my
> >  > privacy
> >  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a public place, and what I
> >  > do
> >  > there is a public matter. Ditto with when I get in my car and approach
> >  > an
> >  > intersection with a light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take this
> >  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the other
> >  > things
> >  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ECC Legislative Working Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to eccleg@...
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eccleg+unsubscribe@...
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eccleg?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:19 PM
To: eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Jonathan Matthews; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider,

Because SB149 is a pilot program that would expire in two years and is limited to the city of New Haven, would you reconsider your opposition until after we have had a chance to test it?  Your specific concerns about civil liberties could then be addressed based on actual problems instead of hypotheticals.  Without a reauthorization by the state legislature, the permission to use the cameras will expire.  Should legitimate issues about privacy arise through the use of the cameras, I would be willing to bet that support for their use would evaporate.  I would be more than willing to discuss the metrics that could be used to measure the privacy implications.

As I discussed with Mr. Matthews last year, we are eager to work with the ACLU to develop a strategy that would both allow the use of red light cameras while protecting the privacy of citizens.  Have you spoken with any of your colleagues in the many other states where red light cameras are already in use?  Have there been specific issues that could be directly addressed in the language of SB149?  I believe that we are capable of crafting a nuanced bill that that can work to protect citizens from both invasions of privacy and violent acts resulting from irresponsible driving, without simply precluding the use of red light cameras altogether.

Attached is a sample citation that is issued by one of the red light camera vendors.  As you can see, it is not possible to see into the interior of the car that is running the red light.  The photos are housed on a secure website to which only the violator and the reviewing New Haven police officer have access.  This is a highly automated system that risks little in the way of privacy invasion.

I appreciate your philosophical position on this matter, but respectfully request that you not elevate theoretical concerns about privacy over the very real threat to the health and well-being of the citizens of the City of New Haven.  I urge you to reconsider your opposition and to engage with us so that a compromise can be met.

Respectfully,
Erin Sturgis-Pascale


-----Original Message-----
From: eccleg@... [mailto:eccleg@...] On Behalf Of Mark Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Erica Mintzer; jmatthews@...; aschneider@...
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...; eccleg@...
Subject: [eccleg] Re: [Traffic-safety] Fwd: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote


Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:

I also support the ACLU, but agree with Erica's position on this issue.  Automated red light enforcement cameras are used in over 400 communities nationwide as well as countless other cities in the world.
 In many of them, deaths caused by red light camera running, which annually number in the thousands, have seen dramatic declines.  In addition, increased safety and security leads to far more walkable and healthier communities.

The ACLU does not typically advocate against positions that would positively impact public health to such a large and proven degree.
Just last week in New Haven, six more individuals were sent to the hospital with serious injuries, one with multiple skull fractures, after a driver ran a red light.  The cumulative financial burden of traffic-related injuries amounts to hundreds of dollars per person per year.

Erica refers to many New Haven residents who support red light cameras.  As evidenced by the cameras' widespread and growing use in other communities, such support is not limited to New Haven.  The Steering Committee of the CT Livable Streets Campaign and other groups have looked into the issue in depth and evaluated potential concerns.
A revised bill, SB149, incorporates many of those concerns.  This legislation still has the potential of passing the General Assembly this year and we hope that you will join us in supporting it.

Again, I would just like to reiterate that the CT Livable Streets Steering Committee supports this measure:

Tokunbo Aanifalaje, Board Member, West River Neighborhood Services Corporation Mark Abraham, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition; Secretary, Dixwell Community Management Team Kirsten Bechtel MD, Section of Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Injury Free Coalition for Kids, Yale-New Haven Hospital Justin Elicker, Co-Leader, Friends of East Rock Park Beth Emery, Member, Transportation Alternatives Middletown Tom Harned, Board Member, Elm City Cycling Doug Hausladen, Vice Chairman, Downtown-Wooster Square Community Management Team Chris Heitmann, Executive Director, Westville Village Renaissance Alliance Ryan Lynch, Senior Planner, Tri-State Transportation Campaign Erica Mintzer, Co-Coordinator, Yale Medical Campus Traffic Safety Group Juli Stupakevich, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition Erin Sturgis-Pascale, Ward 14 Alderwoman, City of New Haven Brian Tang, Student, Yale University

Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or would like to discuss the issue in more detail.

Best regards,

Mark Abraham
203 500 7059



On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Subject: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments
> > and
> >  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is certainly
> > room
> >  > for
> >  > several different intelligent opinions. I appreciate your taking
> > the
> >  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM
> >  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan Matthews
> >  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >
> >  > Dear Mr. Schneider and Mr. Matthews,
> >  > Hello, I am a private citizen who lives in New Haven. I was
> > extremely
> >  > disappointed and surprised when I heard that HB 5522, the red
> > light
> >  > camera
> >  > bill, was shot down last month. I was told that the ACLU's
> > involvement
> >  > may
> >  > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely
> >  > understand
> >  > your
> >  > position on the matter, and your position in general. I am not an
> >  > enemy
> >  > of
> >  > the ACLU, and I support what you do, though I never crossed into
> >  > becoming a
> >  > "card-carrying member," though I considered it. I am telling you
> >  > this so
> >  > that you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> >  > failed. I
> >  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven area. If you
> > lived
> >  > here,
> >  > not that you don't, you would understand what a decent
> > law-abiding
> >  > driver
> >  > here goes through every day. If you go the speed limit here, you
> >  > will be
> >  > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several
> > times a
> >  > week,
> >  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow light turning
> > to
> >  > red,
> >  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New Haven Green." Get it?
> > Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high
> > percentage, it
> >  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the road. It's a very
> >  > serious
> >  > problem for our quality of life, not to mention the safety of
> > drivers,
> >  > cyclists and pedestrians. If you went through what we went
> > through
> >  > on a
> >  > daily basis, you might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due
> >  > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> >  > cut. On
> >  > top
> >  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving little financial
> >  > incentive
> >  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I moved here from NYC, so I am not a
> >  > sheltered
> >  > driver. In NY, they have red light cameras. Guess what? People
> > don't
> >  > really
> >  > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50%
> > more
> >  > cameras
> >  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think
> > twice,
> >  > and
> >  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and red-light runners
> > against
> >  > the
> >  > civil liberties of everyone else who is driving responsibly and
> > within
> >  > the
> >  > law - to have decent quality of life, to have life in general,
> >  > right? I
> >  > should have a right to leave my house and be more certain that I
> > won't
> >  > be
> >  > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light.
> > It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person
> > leaves
> >  > the
> >  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the time here in
> > New
> >  > Haven,
> >  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to
> > security
> >  > cameras
> >  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you lived here with the
> > fears
> >  > of
> >  > street crime, you might not be so bothered by such cameras
> > mounted on
> >  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters.
> > However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> >  > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think
> > my
> >  > privacy
> >  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a public place, and
> > what I
> >  > do
> >  > there is a public matter. Ditto with when I get in my car and
> > approach
> >  > an
> >  > intersection with a light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take
> > this
> >  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the
> > other
> >  > things
> >  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ECC Legislative Working Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to eccleg@... To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eccleg+unsubscribe@...
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eccleg?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

From: Jonathan Matthews [mailto:jmatthews@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:42 PM
To: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Ms. Sturgis-Pascale,

Thank you for your correspondence. The fact that you proactively contacted our organization speaks highly of your concern for the rights of the citizens you represent. I commend you for that.

I also appreciate your willingness to engage in a dialogue concerning this matter. Before I respond to your inquiry, could you send me a draft of the proposed traffic camera ordinance? I'd like to see the specific language that you are considering, before I give you my thoughts.

Thanks again for contacting me. I look forward to working with you on this issue.

Take care,
Jon Matthews
ACLU-CT Legal Director

-----Original Message-----
From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:19 PM
To: eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Jonathan Matthews; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider,

Because SB149 is a pilot program that would expire in two years and is limited to the city of New Haven, would you reconsider your opposition until after we have had a chance to test it?  Your specific concerns about civil liberties could then be addressed based on actual problems instead of hypotheticals.  Without a reauthorization by the state legislature, the permission to use the cameras will expire.  Should legitimate issues about privacy arise through the use of the cameras, I would be willing to bet that support for their use would evaporate.  I would be more than willing to discuss the metrics that could be used to measure the privacy implications.

As I discussed with Mr. Matthews last year, we are eager to work with the ACLU to develop a strategy that would both allow the use of red light cameras while protecting the privacy of citizens.  Have you spoken with any of your colleagues in the many other states where red light cameras are already in use?  Have there been specific issues that could be directly addressed in the language of SB149?  I believe that we are capable of crafting a nuanced bill that that can work to protect citizens from both invasions of privacy and violent acts resulting from irresponsible driving, without simply precluding the use of red light cameras altogether.

Attached is a sample citation that is issued by one of the red light camera vendors.  As you can see, it is not possible to see into the interior of the car that is running the red light.  The photos are housed on a secure website to which only the violator and the reviewing New Haven police officer have access.  This is a highly automated system that risks little in the way of privacy invasion.

I appreciate your philosophical position on this matter, but respectfully request that you not elevate theoretical concerns about privacy over the very real threat to the health and well-being of the citizens of the City of New Haven.  I urge you to reconsider your opposition and to engage with us so that a compromise can be met.

Respectfully,
Erin Sturgis-Pascale


-----Original Message-----
From: eccleg@... [mailto:eccleg@...] On Behalf Of Mark Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Erica Mintzer; jmatthews@...; aschneider@...
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...; eccleg@...
Subject: [eccleg] Re: [Traffic-safety] Fwd: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote


Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:

I also support the ACLU, but agree with Erica's position on this issue.  Automated red light enforcement cameras are used in over 400 communities nationwide as well as countless other cities in the world.
 In many of them, deaths caused by red light camera running, which annually number in the thousands, have seen dramatic declines.  In addition, increased safety and security leads to far more walkable and healthier communities.

The ACLU does not typically advocate against positions that would positively impact public health to such a large and proven degree.
Just last week in New Haven, six more individuals were sent to the hospital with serious injuries, one with multiple skull fractures, after a driver ran a red light.  The cumulative financial burden of traffic-related injuries amounts to hundreds of dollars per person per year.

Erica refers to many New Haven residents who support red light cameras.  As evidenced by the cameras' widespread and growing use in other communities, such support is not limited to New Haven.  The Steering Committee of the CT Livable Streets Campaign and other groups have looked into the issue in depth and evaluated potential concerns.
A revised bill, SB149, incorporates many of those concerns.  This legislation still has the potential of passing the General Assembly this year and we hope that you will join us in supporting it.

Again, I would just like to reiterate that the CT Livable Streets Steering Committee supports this measure:

Tokunbo Aanifalaje, Board Member, West River Neighborhood Services Corporation Mark Abraham, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition; Secretary, Dixwell Community Management Team Kirsten Bechtel MD, Section of Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Injury Free Coalition for Kids, Yale-New Haven Hospital Justin Elicker, Co-Leader, Friends of East Rock Park Beth Emery, Member, Transportation Alternatives Middletown Tom Harned, Board Member, Elm City Cycling Doug Hausladen, Vice Chairman, Downtown-Wooster Square Community Management Team Chris Heitmann, Executive Director, Westville Village Renaissance Alliance Ryan Lynch, Senior Planner, Tri-State Transportation Campaign Erica Mintzer, Co-Coordinator, Yale Medical Campus Traffic Safety Group Juli Stupakevich, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition Erin Sturgis-Pascale, Ward 14 Alderwoman, City of New Haven Brian Tang, Student, Yale University

Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or would like to discuss the issue in more detail.

Best regards,

Mark Abraham
203 500 7059



On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Subject: RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments
> > and
> >  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is certainly
> > room
> >  > for
> >  > several different intelligent opinions. I appreciate your taking
> > the
> >  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM
> >  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan Matthews
> >  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >
> >  > Dear Mr. Schneider and Mr. Matthews,
> >  > Hello, I am a private citizen who lives in New Haven. I was
> > extremely
> >  > disappointed and surprised when I heard that HB 5522, the red
> > light
> >  > camera
> >  > bill, was shot down last month. I was told that the ACLU's
> > involvement
> >  > may
> >  > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely
> >  > understand
> >  > your
> >  > position on the matter, and your position in general. I am not an
> >  > enemy
> >  > of
> >  > the ACLU, and I support what you do, though I never crossed into
> >  > becoming a
> >  > "card-carrying member," though I considered it. I am telling you
> >  > this so
> >  > that you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> >  > failed. I
> >  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven area. If you
> > lived
> >  > here,
> >  > not that you don't, you would understand what a decent
> > law-abiding
> >  > driver
> >  > here goes through every day. If you go the speed limit here, you
> >  > will be
> >  > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several
> > times a
> >  > week,
> >  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow light turning
> > to
> >  > red,
> >  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New Haven Green." Get it?
> > Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high
> > percentage, it
> >  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the road. It's a very
> >  > serious
> >  > problem for our quality of life, not to mention the safety of
> > drivers,
> >  > cyclists and pedestrians. If you went through what we went
> > through
> >  > on a
> >  > daily basis, you might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due
> >  > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> >  > cut. On
> >  > top
> >  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving little financial
> >  > incentive
> >  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I moved here from NYC, so I am not a
> >  > sheltered
> >  > driver. In NY, they have red light cameras. Guess what? People
> > don't
> >  > really
> >  > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50%
> > more
> >  > cameras
> >  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think
> > twice,
> >  > and
> >  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and red-light runners
> > against
> >  > the
> >  > civil liberties of everyone else who is driving responsibly and
> > within
> >  > the
> >  > law - to have decent quality of life, to have life in general,
> >  > right? I
> >  > should have a right to leave my house and be more certain that I
> > won't
> >  > be
> >  > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light.
> > It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person
> > leaves
> >  > the
> >  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the time here in
> > New
> >  > Haven,
> >  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to
> > security
> >  > cameras
> >  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you lived here with the
> > fears
> >  > of
> >  > street crime, you might not be so bothered by such cameras
> > mounted on
> >  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters.
> > However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> >  > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think
> > my
> >  > privacy
> >  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a public place, and
> > what I
> >  > do
> >  > there is a public matter. Ditto with when I get in my car and
> > approach
> >  > an
> >  > intersection with a light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take
> > this
> >  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the
> > other
> >  > things
> >  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ECC Legislative Working Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to eccleg@... To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eccleg+unsubscribe@...
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eccleg?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:06 PM
To: Jonathan Matthews; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Hi Jon,
When the bill was first proposed, we attached the letter that you sent me asking that language be included to address the concerns that you raised.  By way of reminder, I've attached your original letter.

It is possible to tightly restrict the use of any information gathered by the cameras by including such language in the legislation--that was my hope from the beginning.  I understand that is not your job to write legislation for a technology whose use you generally object to, but by working together, we could set a legislative precedent for the fate of surveillance information.  I'm sure the ACLU is keenly aware of the ubiquity of surveillance cameras, in both private and public sectors.

Would you be willing to meet with us to discuss this, perhaps with Betty Gallo as well?

Thank you for your time,
Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Matthews [mailto:jmatthews@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:42 PM
To: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Ms. Sturgis-Pascale,

Thank you for your correspondence. The fact that you proactively contacted our organization speaks highly of your concern for the rights of the citizens you represent. I commend you for that.

I also appreciate your willingness to engage in a dialogue concerning this matter. Before I respond to your inquiry, could you send me a draft of the proposed traffic camera ordinance? I'd like to see the specific language that you are considering, before I give you my thoughts.

Thanks again for contacting me. I look forward to working with you on this issue.

Take care,
Jon Matthews
ACLU-CT Legal Director

-----Original Message-----
From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:19 PM
To: eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Jonathan Matthews; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider,

Because SB149 is a pilot program that would expire in two years and is limited to the city of New Haven, would you reconsider your opposition until after we have had a chance to test it?  Your specific concerns about civil liberties could then be addressed based on actual problems instead of hypotheticals.  Without a reauthorization by the state legislature, the permission to use the cameras will expire.  Should legitimate issues about privacy arise through the use of the cameras, I would be willing to bet that support for their use would evaporate.  I would be more than willing to discuss the metrics that could be used to measure the privacy implications.

As I discussed with Mr. Matthews last year, we are eager to work with the ACLU to develop a strategy that would both allow the use of red light cameras while protecting the privacy of citizens.  Have you spoken with any of your colleagues in the many other states where red light cameras are already in use?  Have there been specific issues that could be directly addressed in the language of SB149?  I believe that we are capable of crafting a nuanced bill that that can work to protect citizens from both invasions of privacy and violent acts resulting from irresponsible driving, without simply precluding the use of red light cameras altogether.

Attached is a sample citation that is issued by one of the red light camera vendors.  As you can see, it is not possible to see into the interior of the car that is running the red light.  The photos are housed on a secure website to which only the violator and the reviewing New Haven police officer have access.  This is a highly automated system that risks little in the way of privacy invasion.

I appreciate your philosophical position on this matter, but respectfully request that you not elevate theoretical concerns about privacy over the very real threat to the health and well-being of the citizens of the City of New Haven.  I urge you to reconsider your opposition and to engage with us so that a compromise can be met.

Respectfully,
Erin Sturgis-Pascale


-----Original Message-----
From: eccleg@... [mailto:eccleg@...] On Behalf Of Mark Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Erica Mintzer; jmatthews@...; aschneider@...
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...; eccleg@...
Subject: [eccleg] Re: [Traffic-safety] Fwd: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote


Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:

I also support the ACLU, but agree with Erica's position on this issue.  Automated red light enforcement cameras are used in over 400 communities nationwide as well as countless other cities in the world.
 In many of them, deaths caused by red light camera running, which annually number in the thousands, have seen dramatic declines.  In addition, increased safety and security leads to far more walkable and healthier communities.

The ACLU does not typically advocate against positions that would positively impact public health to such a large and proven degree.
Just last week in New Haven, six more individuals were sent to the hospital with serious injuries, one with multiple skull fractures, after a driver ran a red light.  The cumulative financial burden of traffic-related injuries amounts to hundreds of dollars per person per year.

Erica refers to many New Haven residents who support red light cameras.  As evidenced by the cameras' widespread and growing use in other communities, such support is not limited to New Haven.  The Steering Committee of the CT Livable Streets Campaign and other groups have looked into the issue in depth and evaluated potential concerns.
A revised bill, SB149, incorporates many of those concerns.  This legislation still has the potential of passing the General Assembly this year and we hope that you will join us in supporting it.

Again, I would just like to reiterate that the CT Livable Streets Steering Committee supports this measure:

Tokunbo Aanifalaje, Board Member, West River Neighborhood Services Corporation Mark Abraham, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition; Secretary, Dixwell Community Management Team Kirsten Bechtel MD, Section of Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Injury Free Coalition for Kids, Yale-New Haven Hospital Justin Elicker, Co-Leader, Friends of East Rock Park Beth Emery, Member, Transportation Alternatives Middletown Tom Harned, Board Member, Elm City Cycling Doug Hausladen, Vice Chairman, Downtown-Wooster Square Community Management Team Chris Heitmann, Executive Director, Westville Village Renaissance Alliance Ryan Lynch, Senior Planner, Tri-State Transportation Campaign Erica Mintzer, Co-Coordinator, Yale Medical Campus Traffic Safety Group Juli Stupakevich, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition Erin Sturgis-Pascale, Ward 14 Alderwoman, City of New Haven Brian Tang, Student, Yale University

Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or would like to discuss the issue in more detail.

Best regards,

Mark Abraham
203 500 7059



On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>  > Subject:
> > RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments
> > and  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is
> > certainly room  > for  > several different intelligent opinions. I
> > appreciate your taking the  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]  > Sent:
> > Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan
> > Matthews  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote  >  > Dear Mr.
> > Schneider and Mr. Matthews,  > Hello, I am a private citizen who
> > lives in New Haven. I was extremely  > disappointed and surprised
> > when I heard that HB 5522, the red light  > camera  > bill, was shot
> > down last month. I was told that the ACLU's involvement  > may  >
> > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely  >
> > understand  > your  > position on the matter, and your position in
> > general. I am not an  > enemy  > of  > the ACLU, and I support what
> > you do, though I never crossed into  > becoming a  > "card-carrying
> > member," though I considered it. I am telling you  > this so  > that
> > you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> > > failed. I  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven
> > area. If you lived  > here,  > not that you don't, you would
> > understand what a decent law-abiding  > driver  > here goes through
> > every day. If you go the speed limit here, you  > will be  >
> > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several times
> > a  > week,  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow
> > light turning to  > red,  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New
> > Haven Green." Get it?
> > Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high
> > percentage, it  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the
> > road. It's a very  > serious  > problem for our quality of life, not
> > to mention the safety of drivers,  > cyclists and pedestrians. If
> > you went through what we went through  > on a  > daily basis, you
> > might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due  >
> > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> > > cut. On  > top  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving
> > little financial  > incentive  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I
> > moved here from NYC, so I am not a  > sheltered  > driver. In NY,
> > they have red light cameras. Guess what? People don't  > really  >
> > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50% more
> > > cameras  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think
> > twice,  > and  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and
> > red-light runners against  > the  > civil liberties of everyone else
> > who is driving responsibly and within  > the  > law - to have decent
> > quality of life, to have life in general,  > right? I  > should have
> > a right to leave my house and be more certain that I won't  > be  >
> > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light.
> > It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person
> > leaves  > the  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the
> > time here in New  > Haven,  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to
> > security  > cameras  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you
> > lived here with the fears  > of  > street crime, you might not be so
> > bothered by such cameras mounted on  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters.
> > However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> > > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think
> > my  > privacy  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a
> > public place, and what I  > do  > there is a public matter. Ditto
> > with when I get in my car and approach  > an  > intersection with a
> > light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take
> > this  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the
> > other  > things  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ECC Legislative Working Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to eccleg@... To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eccleg+unsubscribe@...
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eccleg?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

From: Jonathan Matthews [mailto:jmatthews@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:18 PM
To: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Erin,
Thank you for refreshing my memory. I'd be happy to meet with you. I could also check with Betty and see if she'd be available to meet. What is your timeframe?
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:06 PM
To: Jonathan Matthews; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Hi Jon,
When the bill was first proposed, we attached the letter that you sent me asking that language be included to address the concerns that you raised.  By way of reminder, I've attached your original letter.

It is possible to tightly restrict the use of any information gathered by the cameras by including such language in the legislation--that was my hope from the beginning.  I understand that is not your job to write legislation for a technology whose use you generally object to, but by working together, we could set a legislative precedent for the fate of surveillance information.  I'm sure the ACLU is keenly aware of the ubiquity of surveillance cameras, in both private and public sectors.

Would you be willing to meet with us to discuss this, perhaps with Betty Gallo as well?

Thank you for your time,
Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Matthews [mailto:jmatthews@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:42 PM
To: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin; eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: RE: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Ms. Sturgis-Pascale,

Thank you for your correspondence. The fact that you proactively contacted our organization speaks highly of your concern for the rights of the citizens you represent. I commend you for that.

I also appreciate your willingness to engage in a dialogue concerning this matter. Before I respond to your inquiry, could you send me a draft of the proposed traffic camera ordinance? I'd like to see the specific language that you are considering, before I give you my thoughts.

Thanks again for contacting me. I look forward to working with you on this issue.

Take care,
Jon Matthews
ACLU-CT Legal Director

-----Original Message-----
From: Sturgis-Pascale, Erin [mailto:erin.pascale@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:19 PM
To: eccleg@...; Erica Mintzer; Jonathan Matthews; Andrew Schneider
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...
Subject: Red Light Cameras vote

Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider,

Because SB149 is a pilot program that would expire in two years and is limited to the city of New Haven, would you reconsider your opposition until after we have had a chance to test it?  Your specific concerns about civil liberties could then be addressed based on actual problems instead of hypotheticals.  Without a reauthorization by the state legislature, the permission to use the cameras will expire.  Should legitimate issues about privacy arise through the use of the cameras, I would be willing to bet that support for their use would evaporate.  I would be more than willing to discuss the metrics that could be used to measure the privacy implications.

As I discussed with Mr. Matthews last year, we are eager to work with the ACLU to develop a strategy that would both allow the use of red light cameras while protecting the privacy of citizens.  Have you spoken with any of your colleagues in the many other states where red light cameras are already in use?  Have there been specific issues that could be directly addressed in the language of SB149?  I believe that we are capable of crafting a nuanced bill that that can work to protect citizens from both invasions of privacy and violent acts resulting from irresponsible driving, without simply precluding the use of red light cameras altogether.

Attached is a sample citation that is issued by one of the red light camera vendors.  As you can see, it is not possible to see into the interior of the car that is running the red light.  The photos are housed on a secure website to which only the violator and the reviewing New Haven police officer have access.  This is a highly automated system that risks little in the way of privacy invasion.

I appreciate your philosophical position on this matter, but respectfully request that you not elevate theoretical concerns about privacy over the very real threat to the health and well-being of the citizens of the City of New Haven.  I urge you to reconsider your opposition and to engage with us so that a compromise can be met.

Respectfully,
Erin Sturgis-Pascale


-----Original Message-----
From: eccleg@... [mailto:eccleg@...] On Behalf Of Mark Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Erica Mintzer; jmatthews@...; aschneider@...
Cc: lisa.kereszi@...; Kirsten Bechtel; ct-livable-streets-discussion@...; eccleg@...
Subject: [eccleg] Re: [Traffic-safety] Fwd: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote


Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:

I also support the ACLU, but agree with Erica's position on this issue.  Automated red light enforcement cameras are used in over 400 communities nationwide as well as countless other cities in the world.
 In many of them, deaths caused by red light camera running, which annually number in the thousands, have seen dramatic declines.  In addition, increased safety and security leads to far more walkable and healthier communities.

The ACLU does not typically advocate against positions that would positively impact public health to such a large and proven degree.
Just last week in New Haven, six more individuals were sent to the hospital with serious injuries, one with multiple skull fractures, after a driver ran a red light.  The cumulative financial burden of traffic-related injuries amounts to hundreds of dollars per person per year.

Erica refers to many New Haven residents who support red light cameras.  As evidenced by the cameras' widespread and growing use in other communities, such support is not limited to New Haven.  The Steering Committee of the CT Livable Streets Campaign and other groups have looked into the issue in depth and evaluated potential concerns.
A revised bill, SB149, incorporates many of those concerns.  This legislation still has the potential of passing the General Assembly this year and we hope that you will join us in supporting it.

Again, I would just like to reiterate that the CT Livable Streets Steering Committee supports this measure:

Tokunbo Aanifalaje, Board Member, West River Neighborhood Services Corporation Mark Abraham, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition; Secretary, Dixwell Community Management Team Kirsten Bechtel MD, Section of Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Injury Free Coalition for Kids, Yale-New Haven Hospital Justin Elicker, Co-Leader, Friends of East Rock Park Beth Emery, Member, Transportation Alternatives Middletown Tom Harned, Board Member, Elm City Cycling Doug Hausladen, Vice Chairman, Downtown-Wooster Square Community Management Team Chris Heitmann, Executive Director, Westville Village Renaissance Alliance Ryan Lynch, Senior Planner, Tri-State Transportation Campaign Erica Mintzer, Co-Coordinator, Yale Medical Campus Traffic Safety Group Juli Stupakevich, Co-Coordinator, New Haven Safe Streets Coalition Erin Sturgis-Pascale, Ward 14 Alderwoman, City of New Haven Brian Tang, Student, Yale University

Please feel free to contact us if you have questions or would like to discuss the issue in more detail.

Best regards,

Mark Abraham
203 500 7059



On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Erica Mintzer <erica.mintzer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Matthews and Mr. Schneider:
>
> I am writing to follow up on my colleague Lisa Kereszi's insightful
> comments.  There are many of us who agree with her, including a large
> group of people in New Haven who have been actively pushing for red
> light cameras.
>
> I am extremely supportive of the ACLU and the principles that the
> organization advocates. I personally have been a longstanding activist
> on issues such as immigrant and LGBT rights.   However, the position
> of the ACLU on red light cameras is based on misinformation about the
> technology utilized to enforce red light violations.  Here are some
> facts that may help clarify the issue:
>
> 1.  The technology that we are pursuing for New Haven is only capable
> of taking a picture of the license plate of a car and a birds-eye view
> of the intersection.  No detail of the driver or other people in the
> intersection is captured.  I encourage you to look at the actual
> photographs taken before you advocate against using them.
>
> 2.  Cameras are already utilized in many of the intersections where
> this technology would be deployed.  A particular intersection that I
> am concerned about is Frontage Road and York Street in New Haven,
> where my fellow medical student, Mila Rainof, was killed by a car a
> year ago.  I walk across this intersection nearly every day, along
> with many patients - including the elderly and disabled - and
> healthcare providers.  Nearly every signal cycle, mutliple drivers run
> through a red light.  When Mila was killed last year, footage from the
> camera over the intersection was utilized to study the incident.
> These cameras are not able to catch red-light runners.  A much less
> privacy-invading technology - red light cameras - would help prevent
> needless deaths in the future, rather than using cameras to learn
> about tragedies after the fact.
>
> I will not repeat the other points that Lisa made, but I encourage you
> to re-think your position on this issue in good faith.  I fear
> ideology has gotten in the way of common sense.  If privacy and civil
> liberties were truly at stake, I would not support red light cameras.
> When you really look at the technology and its capability, however,
> the weight of the evidence supports utilizing red light cameras to
> preserve the safety and livability of our streets.
>
> Thank you very much for your time and consideration.  I look forward
> to your response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Erica Mintzer
>
> MD Candidate, 2009
> Yale School of Medicine
>
> 170 Dwight Street, #2
> New Haven, CT 06511
>
> 617-320-8873
> erica.mintzer@...
>
> >  > ----- Forwarded message from jmatthews@... -----
> >  >    Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:48 -0400
> >  >    From: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>
> >  > Reply-To: Jonathan Matthews <jmatthews@...>  > Subject:
> > RE: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote
> >  >      To: Lisa Kereszi <lisa.kereszi@...>
> >  >
> >  > Lisa,
> >  > Thank you for your input. You made some very thoughtful arguments
> > and  > insightful comments. On these tough issues, there is
> > certainly room  > for  > several different intelligent opinions. I
> > appreciate your taking the  > time to write to us.
> >  > Take care,
> >  > Jon
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Lisa Kereszi [mailto:lisa.kereszi@...]  > Sent:
> > Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:01 PM  > To: Andrew Schneider; Jonathan
> > Matthews  > Subject: HB 5522 Red Light Cameras vote  >  > Dear Mr.
> > Schneider and Mr. Matthews,  > Hello, I am a private citizen who
> > lives in New Haven. I was extremely  > disappointed and surprised
> > when I heard that HB 5522, the red light  > camera  > bill, was shot
> > down last month. I was told that the ACLU's involvement  > may  >
> > have helped swing the results by just one vote. I completely  >
> > understand  > your  > position on the matter, and your position in
> > general. I am not an  > enemy  > of  > the ACLU, and I support what
> > you do, though I never crossed into  > becoming a  > "card-carrying
> > member," though I considered it. I am telling you  > this so  > that
> > you understand that I understand and am not against what you do.
> >  >
> >  > However, I was upset to hear that the red light camera bill in CT
> > > failed. I  > live in New Haven, specifically in the Fair Haven
> > area. If you lived  > here,  > not that you don't, you would
> > understand what a decent law-abiding  > driver  > here goes through
> > every day. If you go the speed limit here, you  > will be  >
> > tailgated, honked at, cursed at, and passed illegally several times
> > a  > week,  > if not per day. If you slow to a stop with a yellow
> > light turning to  > red,  > same thing. Here, a red light is a "New
> > Haven Green." Get it?
> > Drivers
> >  > here
> >  > are erratic, entitled, rude, impatient. There is a high
> > percentage, it  > seems, of drivers who think that they own the
> > road. It's a very  > serious  > problem for our quality of life, not
> > to mention the safety of drivers,  > cyclists and pedestrians. If
> > you went through what we went through  > on a  > daily basis, you
> > might not oppose such a bill.
> >  >
> >  > Sure, it would be best to have actual officers on hand for due  >
> > process.
> >  > That
> >  > is not possible, especially in these tougher times, with budgets
> > > cut. On  > top  > it it, ticket revenue goes to Hartford, leaving
> > little financial  > incentive  > for the NHPD to ticket more. I
> > moved here from NYC, so I am not a  > sheltered  > driver. In NY,
> > they have red light cameras. Guess what? People don't  > really  >
> > run red lights anymore. And, the legislature just approved 50% more
> > > cameras  > to be added! Kudos to my old home state.
> >  >
> >  > I'd like to ask you, if there is a next time, to please think
> > twice,  > and  > weigh the civil liberties of scofflaws and
> > red-light runners against  > the  > civil liberties of everyone else
> > who is driving responsibly and within  > the  > law - to have decent
> > quality of life, to have life in general,  > right? I  > should have
> > a right to leave my house and be more certain that I won't  > be  >
> > broadsided, and possibly killed, by someone running a red light.
> > It
> >  > would
> >  > also help bring a fleeing driver to justice when/if that person
> > leaves  > the  > scene of the accident/crime, which happens all the
> > time here in New  > Haven,  > including yesterday.
> >  >
> >  > My attitude about this also applies to your opposition to
> > security  > cameras  > in public spaces in this city. Again, if you
> > lived here with the fears  > of  > street crime, you might not be so
> > bothered by such cameras mounted on  > poles.
> >  > Yes, it's bad that they could be used against protesters.
> > However,
> >  > there
> >  > needs to be a sea change in gov't and the police, so that is not
> > > happening.
> >  > When I am on the street, it is a public place, and I don't think
> > my  > privacy  > is being taken away. I am choosing to be in a
> > public place, and what I  > do  > there is a public matter. Ditto
> > with when I get in my car and approach  > an  > intersection with a
> > light turning red.
> >  >
> >  > Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take
> > this  > citizen's response into consideration. Thank you for all the
> > other  > things  > that you do.
> >  >
> >  > Sincerely,
> >  >
> >  > Lisa Kereszi
> >  > -----
> >  >

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ECC Legislative Working Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to eccleg@... To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eccleg+unsubscribe@...
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eccleg?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---